ryan decided not to back, the one barack obama decided not to back, you had an increase in the federal gasoline tax. caps on mortgage interest. charitable donations and retirement contributions. these were all tough choices you made. you also increased the eligibility age for medicare and social security. reduced benefits for wealthier seniors. some of those things i've heard democrats and republicans say they agree on, others they loathe them. is there anything that should be untouchable? >> the problems are real, no easy way out. we've got to come up with at least $4 trillion of deficit reduction and that's not the maximum amount we need to do is not even the ideal amount. it's the minimum amount we need to reduce the deficit in order to stabilize the debt and get it on the path to stabilizing the gdp. >> it's interesting you say it that way. it's not the maximum, barely the minimum. bill gross from pimco says 16 trillion, which is not to be negative, but just to say people who think your plan is tough, it's getting us started on this path. it's not solving everything. >> absolutely.